Virgo and Revelation 12

I don’t think any Astronomical alignments involving the Constellations is the main meaning of any of the Signs in Revelation 12, but I have gone back and forth on the idea of Virgo as The Woman being a secondary layer of meaning.

Joseph’s Dream in Genesis 37:9 and how Jacob interpreted it in verse 10 is undeniably a key piece of the puzzle of Revelation 12’s symbolism.  However I disagree with the common statement that the woman called Joseph’s Mother here is Rachel, Rachel had already passed away and this is a prophecy of events fulfilled later in Genesis, Jacob clearly meant Leah who is the Matriarch of the family by this point, so the Sun and Moon are Jacob and Leah.  When each Zodiac sign is identified with a Tribe, Issachar is often chosen for Virgo because of the story in Genesis 30:14-16 where it’s easy to see Rachel as Virgo and the Mandrakes as Spica.

Back when a lot of people online were hyping a certain 2017 alignment the argument was made that Leo is The Crown of 12 Stars but needed three extra Stars via three planets being there to complete the visual. Well Ptolemy said the three stars we today call Leo Minor were essentially part of Leo, so actually Leo on it's own can be defined as 12 stars.

Principally what I have a problem with is the assumption that when Virgo is “clothed with the Sun” has to mean when the Sun is in Virgo.  There were more obvious ways John could have described the idea of the Sun being inside the Woman. Also the Constellation the Sun is currently in is NOT actually visible in the night sky at that time, at least not entirely, Virgo is a longer one so she sometimes partly is.  The Moon is under the feet of Virgo once every month, the times that happens while the Sun is in Virgo however make it so that is not what it really looks like from a human observer’s perspective, at least not in the way I feel Revelation 12 wants us to visualize it.

Homer described Eos, the Greek Goddess who was the personification of the Dawn, as wearing a Saffron Robe, Saffron is a shade of Yellow that is perceived as being the same color as The Sun. So the description of Clothed with the Sun could be evoking the visual of a female personification of the Dawn.  After all, Psalm 110 talked about the Priest-King after the order of Melchizedek coming from the Womb of the Morning, and the Septuagint translated “Morning” there as Eosphorou.  A daughter of Eos named Astraea was among the mythical figures identified with Virgo by the Ancient Greeks, so seeing Virgo as Eos herself sometimes seems perfectly valid.

While the Sun is in Libra and maybe also Scorpio the Stars of Virgo rise in the East near the end of the night just before Dawn and the brightest of them are on a clear night still visible while the light of the Dawn is first emerging. That in my view is when Virgo is truly Clothed with the Sun.

During this time the Moon being under the Feet of Virgo rather than correlating to the New Moon as it tends to be while the Sun is in Virgo is more the time nearing the end of the Lunar Month, maybe even pretty close to the 25th day of that Lunar cycle? Or maybe the 27th would be a safer assumption?

Two Thousand Years ago this time of year tended to be about Late October and Early November.  Today this time frame seems to be more fully contained within November.  Neither is a time of year that Futurists obsessed with the Hebrew Calendar are usually looking for Revelation events to happen in.  Typically this time of year would be presumed to be part of the Eight Month of the Hebrew Calendar, which many assume was the second Month back in Genesis where the 27th of that Month had significance at the end of the The Flood narrative in Genesis 8:14.

That happens every year so something else must also be happening if Revelation 12 is describing a rare or even uncommon astronomical event.

Jupiter is a popular Planet to identify with The Man-Child because every 12 years it spends over a year in Virgo and often it can be easy to argue about 9 months specifically in her Womb.  Also the Man-Child being said to rule the nations with a Rod of Iron fits Jupiter’s association with Kingship.

That happens every 12 years but it perfectly lining up with near the end of the 9 months being when Virgo is in this Dawn personification position doesn’t always happen and the Moon under her feet lining up right also doesn’t always happen.

But if we want an additional variable we can add Venus to the mix.  You see the first time Revelation mentions ruling the nations with a Rod of Iron it is paired with being given the Morning Star in chapter 2 verses 26-28.  Now Jupiter can be a Morning Star, in fact it pretty much always is when in the position we’re looking for.  However as a distinct title The Morning Star is usually a reference to Venus.  So Venus being close to Jupiter, perhaps even having a Conjunction at this time, would be even more impressive.

For those who think the first part of Revelation 12 is looking back to The Nativity.  

I’ve lately been favoring a 13 or 12 BC timeframe for the Nativity.  The morning of October 28th 13 BC has Jupiter and Venus very near each other on the line between Spica and Heze while the Moon is under Virgo’s Feet.  However, that was not the end of Jupiter’s time in Virgo.  A year later Jupiter was in Libra by this time.

I had a number of years ago actually argued for a very unconventional 25-24 BC Nativity model.  In that context the morning of October 29th 24 BC is interesting.  

Back when I was a Mid-Trib Futurist I spent a lot of time arguing that The Man-Child is The Church and/or Believers not Jesus specifically.  I still kind of hold that view, I have a post on this blog about how only The Lamb is Jesus specifically in Revelation 4-22:5.  But I’m still working on how to frame my Man-Child view in my new Partial Preterist Eschatology.

In my post on The Fall of Satan I suggested the possibility of literally placing it during the Ministry of Jesus while the 12 were on their Training Mission.  But my timeline for the First Advent never has Jupiter in Virgo then.

As far as 70 AD centric Preterist models go, Jupiter isn’t in Virgo till after The Temple is destroyed, approaching Virgo in October of 70 AD, in her but not in the Womb yet in October of 71 and entering Libra in October of 72.  And I also had no luck with the Bar Kochba Revolt era.  

Given my theories about about The Beast being specifically Christian Rome, the morning of November 11th 332 AD is fascinating, Venus is nearby but not in Virgo, however Saturn is, Saturn and Jupiter in the same sign is a very rare combination, and the imagery of Saturn could be equated with the Son of Man on a Cloud in Revelation 14.  The 26th and 27th of October in 368 has Jupiter positioned perfectly but no other Planets nearby.  380 however is the year of the Edict of Thessalonica, the morning of October 14th has Venus very near Jupiter and about to get closer.  392 was the year Theodosius became Emperor of both West and East and reinforced his Nicene Christianity only policy.  Halloween morning that year had Jupiter leaving Virgo with Saturn not far behind. 

439 is the year The Vandals took Carthage on October 19th. On the morning of October 23rd there was a Jupiter-Venus conjunction in Virgo with the Moon under her feet. In 451 the Council of Chalcedon was from October 8-November 1st. October 10th and November 7th are the mornings when the Moon is under the Feet of Virgo. The morning of Halloween in 487 looks interesting, as does November 2nd 522.

534 is an important year in the Reign of Justinian, the morning of October 22nd has Mercury near Jupiter, I can't think of Revelation significance for Mercury yet. In 546 Rome was under siege most of the year leading to a Sack on December 17th and the Lombards had a change in leadership. The morning of November 7th had a Jupiter-Venus Conjunction.

In my Heraclius model, I identity the 1260 days of the Two Witnesses with Nehemiah Ben Hushiel’s governing of Jerusalem in 614-617, so soon after he’s killed in I assume September of 617 is when Revelation 12 would be one of the next events on the timeline.  The morning of November 2nd could fit but Jupiter is the only planet in place.  Next is October 21st of 629 after Heraclius has already proclaimed himself King.

So I still haven’t perfected this theory but I think I’m on the right track.

There is no Human King of Babylon in Isaiah 14

For some reason YouTube keeps recommending me Videos about how "Satan isn't in The Bible" often with the specific emphasis on "Lucifer" being a King of Babylon not a Fallen Angel.

The thing is as my last two posts on this blog which were also in part about Isaiah 14 show, I am all for questioning the traditional understanding of Satan.  One of those however focuses on "Lucifer" being a mistranslation in Isaiah 14:12 while I'm pretty sure all these "it's just about a Human King" people think the verse is indeed a poetic reference to the Planet Venus as the Morning Star.  Also this "Isaiah is talking about a Human King" thesis often goes hand in hand with the "it's referencing a Canaanite myth about the Morning Star" idea I already debunked.

However a lot of people who do think Isaiah 14 is talking about Satan at least as early as verse 12, think it starts out talking about a Human King of Babylon and then at some point ambiguously or amorphously changes to being about Satan, and will say Ezekiel 28 does the same.  

Ezekiel 28 does talk about the human Prince of Tyre first but the change of subject is not ambiguous, anytime a Prophet says "The Word of The LORD came unto me, saying" it is the start of a new Prophecy, maybe still connected to the prior Prophecy or maybe not but either way it is an unambiguous shift in focus, so no the Prince (Nagyim) of Tyre and the King (Melek) of Tyre can't be interpreted as the same person.

Babylon had a King in Isaiah's time, but he was a subject of Assyria who did attempt to rebel agaisnt Assyria but the attempt failed.  I don't think the Human ruler of Babylon at that time is one truly worthy of the title of King, certainly not a King described with the grandiosity attributed to the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14.

Isaiah 14 does indeed call someone the "King of Babylon", I'm not denying that textual fact.  But the title of King is not in The Hebrew Bible limited to mere mortal political leaders.  All the way back in The Torah the intent was for YHWH to be the King of Israel, but Deuteronomy 18 foretold that Israel would one day reject YHWH as King and demand a Human King like the other Nations had, this happened in the days of Samuel.

Most if not all times you see "King" in English translations of The Hebrew Bible the Hebrew word is Melek, and words derived from it get translated things like "Kingdom" and "Queen".  Every time you see Molech or Moloch in the King James Version it's a word that in the vowless Hebrew Alphabet is spelled the same as Melek but pronounced different via different vowel indicators in the Masoretic Text, and Milcom is it's plural form.  However different texts don't always agree on where it's Melek and where it's Molech like for example Amos 5:26 (quoted by Stephen in Acts 7:43), the Masoretic is Melek but the LXX is Molech for that verse.  

Some Hebrew scholars believe originally the distinction between these words didn't exist and it was always just the Hebrew word for King sometimes being used as a title for certain Pagan gods the same way Baal is a word that means Lord or Master.

I believe every reference in the Pentateuch to Molech or Milcom has no specific deity in mind but is just about worshiping any King other then YHWH whether they were human or a god.  1 Kings 11:5, 7, 23 and 2 Kings 23:13 do use them specifically of the national patron god of the Ammonites, 2 Kings 23:10 and Jeremiah 32:35 are about the Tophet where what pagan deity is truly in mind is ambiguous.  Then there is the Malcham of Zephaniah 1:5 where in context it seems to be synymous with Baal.

Tyre had a patron deity known by the name Melqart derived from the same Semitic root as Melek and commonly interpreted to mean "King of the City".    Likewise, when Ezekiel 30 calls Pharoah King of Egypt the Great Dragon I believe the reference is to Sobek the Crocodile god who was the power behind Pharoah not the Human ruler.

Babylon during this period also had a Patron deity associated with Kingship named Marduk, he's also associated with Utu in some texts even seemingly called a Son of the Sun which could explain "Son of the Dawn" since Utu's wife was a Dawn Goddess named Aya.  

Heck if you want to keep the idea that Heylel son of Shahar refers to a Planet, then Marduk was identified with Jupiter, in which contexts Jupiter was called Nibiru.  (The Planet Jupiter in Greek Mythology was also a Son of Eos named Phaethon which meant "Shiner" or "Radiant".)  The Shining One interpretation of Heylel would also fit Marduk being described as "radiant".    But the proposed true readings I actually argued in my prior post can probably fit Marduk too.

The Canaanite deity one would likely equate with Marduk during this period was Hadad called Baal in the Ugarit Baal Cycle, it was he not any "Morning Star" that was the Rebel agaisnt El in Canaanite mythology.  Marduk was also called Bel a variation of Baal.

The King of Babylon in Isaiah 14 is Satan identified with Marduk.